1
00:00:02,380 --> 00:00:07,300
Welcome to C4JR’s podcast series, “More Than Ink on Paper

2
00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,500
Presented by the Coalition for Just Reparations (C4JR),

3
00:00:11,040 --> 00:00:16,760
through which we platform relevant voices around the 
Yazidi Survivors Law,

4
00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:21,160
which has too often also been referred to as “ink on paper”

5
00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,740
by some survivors of ISIS crimes to voice their doubts

6
00:00:25,980 --> 00:00:29,970
About the Iraqi government’s commitment to delivering long-awaited reparations guaranteed under the legislation.

7
00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:36,150
We’ll be speaking to those working to ensure that this is not the case,

8
00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:42,320
and take a sweeping look at issues of transitional justice and accountability in Iraq,

9
00:00:42,430 --> 00:00:45,800
through the process of seeking to implement the law.

10
00:00:47,010 --> 00:00:54,190
Joining us on the YSL podcast today is Dr. Nagham Hassan, an Iraqi Yazidi  gynecologist,

11
00:00:54,390 --> 00:00:58,660
and a well-known advocate for women's and religious minorities' rights.

12
00:00:58,760 --> 00:00:59,930
Welcome, Doctor.

13
00:01:00,220 --> 00:01:01,650
Thank you!

14
00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:10,160
This episode is especially significant as it coincides with the 
International Day for the Elimination of Sexual Violence in Conflict

15
00:01:10,580 --> 00:01:20,440
it’s a moment to highlight the efforts made to address the impact of this violence and support survivors on their path to justice and healing.

16
00:01:22,140 --> 00:01:27,560
Dear Dr.Nagham, welcome again to
 C4JR’s podcast, More Than Ink on Paper.

17
00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:37,940
Let me briefly talk about C4JR, which , alliance of Iraqi NGOs 
supporting survivors realize their right to reparations and 

18
00:01:38,650 --> 00:01:42,770
justice for crimes committed during the ISIS conflict in Iraq. 

19
00:01:43,900 --> 00:01:52,980
C4JR promotes survivor-centered justice by ensuring inclusive, 
ethical implementation of the Yazidi Survivors Law

20
00:01:53,350 --> 00:02:00,570
through advocacy, monitoring, reporting, and supporting 
the right to rehabilitation as reparation. 

21
00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:10,960
Dr. Nagham, we know that, as a gynecologist and Yazidi woman, you enjoy unprecedented trust among the Yazidi survivor community. 

22
00:02:11,530 --> 00:02:17,730
You were honored in 2022 with the prestigious Nansen Refugee Award,

23
00:02:18,180 --> 00:02:29,250
By the UNHCR, which is awarded to individuals who “go above and beyond the call of duty to protect refugees, displaced and stateless people.” 

24
00:02:30,030 --> 00:02:42,280
Back in 2016, you also received International Women of Courage Award followed by a Physicians for Human Rights award, Franco-German prize, the list goes on and on.

25
00:02:43,330 --> 00:02:49,400
Reason for these recognitions is that you spent over a 
decade providing medical and emotional care, 

26
00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:56,430
in particular ensuring access to gynecological services, to more than1200   Yazidi women released from ISIS captivity,

27
00:02:56,890 --> 00:03:04,260
founded Hope Makers Organization for Woman and became a 
respected voice advocating for peace and human rights. 

28
00:03:04,480 --> 00:03:06,680
Did I miss anything?

29
00:03:07,180 --> 00:03:13,600
– Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to be part of

30
00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:16,810
this podcast “more than ink on paper”.

31
00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,110
And thank you for the warm introduction.

32
00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:26,440
In fact, I’ve worked in supporting 
survivors since 2014 up to this moment.

33
00:03:26,530 --> 00:03:29,060
I dedicated my life to serving survivors.

34
00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:35,510
My work began in September 2014 when ISIS 
invaded the Sinjar area and

35
00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,330
Killed men and enslaved more than 6,500 women.

36
00:03:39,660 --> 00:03:47,040
When the first two survivors were freed and brought to the 
Kurdistan Region, I decided to help them.

37
00:03:47,570 --> 00:03:51,650
So, my journey with the survivors started then — providing 
them support in various ways.

38
00:03:52,470 --> 00:04:00,890
The first aspect was medical. As you kindly mentioned, I provided medical care to more than 1,200 survivors 

39
00:04:01,090 --> 00:04:05,390
over ten years and continued their medical follow-up.

40
00:04:05,780 --> 00:04:14,990
In addition, in 2015, there was a German government program to 
transfer over 1,000 survivors

41
00:04:15,190 --> 00:04:20,680
 to Germany for psychological treatment. I was 
selected as the program doctor.

42
00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:26,990
I worked for a year in this field and used to visit 
the survivors in Germany 

43
00:04:27,190 --> 00:04:34,230
to check their overall situation and report any challenges
 to the German government.

44
00:04:34,550 --> 00:04:40,410
Also, there was a shelter for orphans — children who had lost both parents.

45
00:04:40,930 --> 00:04:47,530
There were about 2,000 such children — their parents were killed.

46
00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:53,590
But there was a small shelter, as most of the orphans 
were living with their relatives.

47
00:04:53,850 --> 00:04:58,150
But there was a small shelter for those who had no 
relatives — about fifty people

48
00:04:58,350 --> 00:05:02,830
I used to visit them periodically to provide medical care.

49
00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:10,750
In addition to that, I conveyed the suffering of survivors to the international community

50
00:05:11,250 --> 00:05:16,820
And the local community to urge support for the 
Yazidi community in general And survivors in particular.

51
00:05:17,070 --> 00:05:25,710
Since I was one of the closest people to the refugee women, I was 
able to truly understand all the suffering of the survivors, 

52
00:05:25,820 --> 00:05:28,340
and I conveyed it with transparency.

53
00:05:28,510 --> 00:05:29,410
You were their voice

54
00:05:29,820 --> 00:05:41,090
Yes, I conveyed it with transparency to all the communities I met with, and on that basis, I was honored

55
00:05:41,620 --> 00:05:50,230
Meaning, we shouldn’t stop our journey at this point, No

56
00:05:50,650 --> 00:05:55,390
So, we established the Hope Makers Organization for Women

57
00:05:55,620 --> 00:06:02,580
To be a voice for survivors within the local and global community.

58
00:06:02,870 --> 00:06:06,010
My journey was truly long

59
00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:13,730
and heavy with burdens, but thanks to God, I was
 able to overcome them.

60
00:06:13,890 --> 00:06:14,400
Yes, clearly.

61
00:06:14,840 --> 00:06:19,770
Okay, Dr. Nagham, we’ll talk more about these details,

62
00:06:19,970 --> 00:06:23,230
But let’s also discuss the Yazidi Survivors Law in Iraq.

63
00:06:23,530 --> 00:06:28,910
In 2021, the Yazidi Survivors Law was enacted in Iraq.

64
00:06:29,090 --> 00:06:38,070
envisaging long-awaited reparations (monthly salary, rehabilitation services, employment, education, land and housing)

65
00:06:38,380 --> 00:06:46,500
not only to Yazidi, Shabak, Turkmen and Christian women 
and girls that ISIL subjected to sexual violence, 

66
00:06:46,930 --> 00:06:53,870
but also, men and women from these communities that survived
 mass killings as well as captured Yazidi children.

67
00:06:54,020 --> 00:06:56,140
As you also mentioned yourself.

68
00:06:57,120 --> 00:07:04,960
It explicitly recognizes ISIL committed genocide, mandates memorialization, 

69
00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:10,590
search for those still missing and criminal 
accountability for perpetrators. 

70
00:07:10,810 --> 00:07:16,810
YSL was enacted to repair, to the extent possible, harm 
done to women, primarily through sexual violence. 

71
00:07:17,230 --> 00:07:20,310
More precisely the YSL in article 1 explicitly enumerates 
the following crimes: 

72
00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:28,850
“kidnapping, sexual slavery, selling in slavery markets, family 
separation, forced conversion, forced marriage, 

73
00:07:29,060 --> 00:07:35,020
pregnancy and forced abortion or inflicting 
physical and psychological harm.”

74
00:07:35,330 --> 00:07:40,580
Now, you are a gynecologist, a medical doctor who treated 
thousands of sexual violence survivors, 

75
00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:46,180
can you provide some examples on how the extensive psychological 
and somatic effects of massively committed sexual violence 

76
00:07:46,350 --> 00:07:55,640
impaired survivors in their everyday lives, in their life and family planning and in their individual (sexual and reproductive) self-determination?

77
00:07:56,180 --> 00:08:00,460
Yes, of course, all the survivors I met are suffering.

78
00:08:00,670 --> 00:08:03,010
They suffered from difficult health conditions.

79
00:08:03,340 --> 00:08:05,620
Both medically and psychologically

80
00:08:05,900 --> 00:08:10,380
Medically, all survivors suffer from chronic pelvic pain,

81
00:08:11,060 --> 00:08:13,910
Irregular menstrual cycles 

82
00:08:14,310 --> 00:08:16,860
because most of them were subjected to rape

83
00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:19,350
As well as complications from forced pregnancies

84
00:08:19,540 --> 00:08:20,750
And forced abortions.

85
00:08:20,900 --> 00:08:23,060
That’s from one side, and there is also, I mean

86
00:08:23,260 --> 00:08:26,480
Also, some survivors have permanent disabilities

87
00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,100
Due to severe and repeated beatings,

88
00:08:30,220 --> 00:08:31,920
Or due to bombings

89
00:08:32,169 --> 00:08:36,760
In areas that were under ISIS control.

90
00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:40,059
So medically, the situation is really bad.

91
00:08:40,260 --> 00:08:42,340
Psychologically, it’s even worse.

92
00:08:42,799 --> 00:08:46,730
All survivors, until now, suffer from depression,

93
00:08:46,980 --> 00:08:52,090
From the anxiety, from the effects of Post-traumatic
 stress disorder,

94
00:08:52,500 --> 00:08:56,650
 which many of them suffer — many of them even attempted suicide.

95
00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:03,740
Many in ISIS captivity committed suicide because they could no
 longer bear the humiliation of their human dignity

96
00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:09,480
So, the psychological condition is even worse than the physical.

97
00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:19,900
To treat both physical and psychological trauma, we need
 trauma-informed health care.

98
00:09:20,260 --> 00:09:23,420
This is a highly sensitive issue,

99
00:09:23,620 --> 00:09:29,650
This, of course, affects both the 
poor health condition and the poor psychological state

100
00:09:30,100 --> 00:09:38,190
Negatively affects their ability to form families, live daily life, 
or have healthy marriages.

101
00:09:38,740 --> 00:09:44,150
Many survivors still feel that their bodies don’t belong to them.

102
00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:51,700
That deeply affects their ability to plan their future, decide 
about marriage or having children.

103
00:09:52,220 --> 00:09:57,640
As I said, to recover from all this,

104
00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:02,480
We need health care that truly addresses trauma.

105
00:10:02,740 --> 00:10:03,530
This is essential.

106
00:10:03,840 --> 00:10:07,380
The Survivors Law is a good step, honestly,

107
00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:12,000
But true compensation for survivors

108
00:10:12,260 --> 00:10:15,840
There is comprehensive and sustainable care 
for a longer period.

109
00:10:16,260 --> 00:10:20,660
Because victims of sexual violence cannot heal in a short time.

110
00:10:20,980 --> 00:10:26,390
I’ve seen many cases where survivors improved after 
two or three years of care,

111
00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,670
We noticed that any improvement often ends up
 back at square one.

112
00:10:29,900 --> 00:10:34,220
Why? Because the environment doesn’t allow the 
survivor to truly heal.

113
00:10:34,500 --> 00:10:37,640
Because most survivors were living in miserable camps.

114
00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,360
Most of the survivors are suffering

115
00:10:41,820 --> 00:10:43,760
From ongoing trauma.

116
00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:44,990
For example she is for

117
00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,020
Ten years, or five years, or six years in captivity

118
00:10:48,220 --> 00:10:48,780
And all of them suffer

119
00:10:49,140 --> 00:10:50,660
She is subjected to all kinds of torture

120
00:10:50,940 --> 00:10:52,020
When they are freed,

121
00:10:53,060 --> 00:10:55,220
They suffer new trauma —

122
00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:56,830
Living in poor camps,

123
00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:58,220
Extreme poverty.

124
00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:02,560
And the worst part is that many of their family members

125
00:11:02,740 --> 00:11:04,380
Are still in captivity.

126
00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:06,700
Sadly, to this day,

127
00:11:07,100 --> 00:11:10,760
We have about 2,700 Yazidi women that are still missing,

128
00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:12,720
Even though all controlled areas have been liberated.

129
00:11:13,220 --> 00:11:14,780
Which was under ISIS control

130
00:11:15,100 --> 00:11:17,180
These factors

131
00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:18,460
Negatively affect the survivor

132
00:11:18,980 --> 00:11:21,440
Which truly prevents the health condition from improving.

133
00:11:21,650 --> 00:11:22,840
Yes!

134
00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:33,980
They will certainly go through all these tragedies, along with all the conditions and torture they have experienced

135
00:11:35,020 --> 00:11:42,820
I would also like to ask you, could you provide us with more detailed insights regarding medical care—

136
00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:49,300
especially gynecological —that’s needed to treat the
 long-term effects of this brutal sexual violence,

137
00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,590
Which often lasted for years in many cases?

138
00:11:53,140 --> 00:11:53,980
Yes!

139
00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,720
I’ve worked since 2002 in many hospitals,

140
00:11:58,700 --> 00:12:02,740
And I treated cases of patients, physically speaking.

141
00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,420
But my experience with survivors was the most difficult.

142
00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:10,300
First, I had no experience dealing with gender-based violence.

143
00:12:10,500 --> 00:12:20,360
Second, treating survivors of sexual violence is much more 
difficult than treating physically ill patients.

144
00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:22,020
It takes a long time,

145
00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:27,970
For example, if a patient with a physical condition needs 
a specific treatment or a short-term intervention,

146
00:12:28,380 --> 00:12:36,710
 they can be treated either medically or surgically, but for 
psychological trauma, the impact lasts much longer.

147
00:12:36,900 --> 00:12:38,960
Dealing with such cases

148
00:12:39,540 --> 00:12:45,360
Requires extreme sensitivity because they often suffer from stigma.

149
00:12:45,500 --> 00:12:48,970
Dealing with these cases must be done with extreme sensitivity

150
00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:55,110
They must feel safe and have full trust in the therapist.

151
00:12:55,620 --> 00:13:02,740
Trust is very important. I believe my success 
came because I broke the barrier of fear

152
00:13:03,220 --> 00:13:05,600
And built trust between me and the survivor.

153
00:13:05,860 --> 00:13:11,080
So that I was able to understand her suffering

154
00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:13,330
So, she could express her pain to me freely

155
00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:16,170
Because I’m a woman like her,

156
00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:21,350
Also, since I’m from the same religion — let’s say.

157
00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:25,170
And because I’m a doctor, she could tell me things she wouldn’t tell others —

158
00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:26,640
There was a special closeness.

159
00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:32,680
Also, integrating psychological and medical treatment
is very important.

160
00:13:32,940 --> 00:13:38,600
As we said, the treatment must be health-focused and sensitive to 
the effects of psychological trauma

161
00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:46,250
So these things are what make it easier for us — they facilitate the treatment process.

162
00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:51,750
Dr. Nagham, is it possible to provide such specialized care in Iraq?

163
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:57,540
And do you receive any support from the health system
 in Iraq or the Kurdistan Region in this area?

164
00:13:58,100 --> 00:14:04,590
Of course, health and psychological care exist in Iraq, 
but unfortunately only in large cities.

165
00:14:04,780 --> 00:14:08,250
Small towns lack these services.

166
00:14:09,060 --> 00:14:10,220
There is medical care,

167
00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,900
But not at the required level.

168
00:14:13,060 --> 00:14:16,970
We have many health centers,

169
00:14:17,620 --> 00:14:22,090
The system in Iraq and in General, around the world

170
00:14:22,340 --> 00:14:24,520
Health centers lack specialists

171
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,540
In addition to this, there are many villages

172
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:29,180
Don’t have access to health services.

173
00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:36,610
So we lack these services, but through NGOs — Through the Hope Makers Organization for Women .

174
00:14:36,810 --> 00:14:50,080
We’ve run many programs, including reproductive health, Family 
planning, And "Mother-to-Mother" “I can”, 

175
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,950
As well as maternal and child health services. 

176
00:14:54,150 --> 00:14:59,840
We focused on these programs to improve women’s reproductive 
health, especially for Yazidi women and all women in the area.

177
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:10,990
In terms of reproductive health, we implemented many programs to improve reproductive health and treat Yazidi women, 

178
00:15:11,190 --> 00:15:14,180
and generally, all the women in the area.

179
00:15:14,900 --> 00:15:20,560
So, the gap lies in remote areas, not the big cities.

180
00:15:20,700 --> 00:15:21,220
Yes!

181
00:15:21,620 --> 00:15:26,160
We don’t have the capacity to reach all these areas. 
Only big cities have proper services.

182
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:34,420
Some hospitals have psychological and medical 
departments with specialists and equipment.

183
00:15:34,780 --> 00:15:36,970
But not all hospitals in Iraq offer this.

184
00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:40,100
And not all rural areas and villages have access

185
00:15:40,500 --> 00:15:43,680
Some villages don’t even have simple health centers.

186
00:15:43,860 --> 00:15:44,620
Yes!

187
00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:53,090
Is it possible for survivors to fully — or at least partially — recover their sexual and reproductive health after what they’ve been through?

188
00:15:53,360 --> 00:16:04,340
Yes, it’s possible. But it’s very difficult. It requires a huge effort, 
patience, time, and sustainable care.

189
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:05,520
Yes!

190
00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:10,880
We’ve talked about the harm and consequences that
 affect women on an individual level,

191
00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,410
But sexual violence also

192
00:16:14,300 --> 00:16:17,300
Has a direct impact on marital and family relationships,

193
00:16:17,940 --> 00:16:19,580
And on society as a whole.

194
00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,180
You also mentioned stigma.

195
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:29,210
There is a culture of shame and silence. We also know that
 ISIS fighters used sexual violence as a 

196
00:16:29,410 --> 00:16:34,860
weapon of war — not just to destroy individuals, but to 
destroy the entire Yazidi community.

197
00:16:35,380 --> 00:16:39,650
In your opinion, how has this type of trauma
 affected families and communities? 

198
00:16:39,850 --> 00:16:47,620
And what kind of interventions are needed to support collective 
healing, resilience, and compassion?

199
00:16:48,100 --> 00:16:58,390
Yes, Of course, ISIS’s main goal wasn’t just to destroy individual Yazidis — It was also to destroy the Yazidi community. 

200
00:16:58,590 --> 00:17:03,220
Unfortunately, they succeeded in doing that through sexual violence

201
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:11,800
This led survivors to feel stigmatized,

202
00:17:12,380 --> 00:17:14,220
Which caused isolation.

203
00:17:14,819 --> 00:17:20,280
Families, spouses — all suffered from this stigma.

204
00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:31,510
To overcome this stigma, we need a collective 
healing process.

205
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:36,500
How can collective healing be achieved?

206
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:44,980
By organizing things like family counseling sessions and 
community awareness campaigns,

207
00:17:45,380 --> 00:17:51,780
Creating safe spaces for dialogue, and involving religious
 leaders in these programs.

208
00:17:52,100 --> 00:17:56,340
Because religious leaders play a major role in reducing stigma.

209
00:17:56,940 --> 00:18:01,640
As is known, the Yazidi community is very closed.

210
00:18:02,460 --> 00:18:09,500
But it's also one of the communities that, for example,

211
00:18:09,980 --> 00:18:15,860
Has faced repeated genocides — 74 genocides in the past.

212
00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:21,820
During the most recent genocide, religious 
leaders played a big role

213
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:29,850
In welcoming survivors warmly — meaning, for example,
 any person trying to 

214
00:18:30,050 --> 00:18:41,600
reintegrate into society should be greeted with hospitality
 and pride, so we can move away from stigma.

215
00:18:42,420 --> 00:18:47,000
So religious leaders played a major role in removing the stigma.

216
00:18:47,380 --> 00:18:52,020
Families also had a big role in helping survivors.

217
00:18:52,420 --> 00:18:59,920
Sometimes, for example, a husband or family 
member would come to me

218
00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:02,930
Saying they didn’t know how to deal with the survivor’s 
psychological symptoms.

219
00:19:03,180 --> 00:19:07,590
We would create a plan — with the husband or family about how they behave and with the survivor to help her 

220
00:19:07,790 --> 00:19:12,700
release or absorb her anger, and to treat her 
and address her behavior.

221
00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:22,500
So, families were really key in helping survivors
 recover from many traumas.

222
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:23,800
Yes!

223
00:19:24,420 --> 00:19:28,480
Yes, That’s a good point — certainly.

224
00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:35,390
Let’s also talk about the reparations promised — Such
 as financial compensation,

225
00:19:35,590 --> 00:19:40,420
 land, housing, education, employment, recognition of
 the genocide, and memorialization.

226
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:46,600
As we mentioned, for the first time in Iraq, the law explicitly 
 defines rehabilitation as a form of reparation.

227
00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:49,740
According to international human rights standards,

228
00:19:50,060 --> 00:19:53,560
Rehabilitation requires medical and psychological care,

229
00:19:53,980 --> 00:19:57,400
As well as legal and social services, and others —

230
00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:05,020
To also restore the survivors’ physical, psychological, social, and professional independence

231
00:20:05,220 --> 00:20:08,340
And ensure their full inclusion in society.

232
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:15,620
As a doctor, you’re naturally concerned with physical healing 
but the psychological harm is enormous too.

233
00:20:15,820 --> 00:20:22,140
Can you tell us more about that trauma, and
 whether mental health and 

234
00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:29,170
social support services exist to meet the survivors’ 
needs in practical terms?

235
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,400
Yes, Of course, as I mentioned before,

236
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:37,280
All survivors suffer from depression, anxiety, and 
 post-traumatic stress.

237
00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,840
There were many suicide attempts —

238
00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:47,300
In fact, many survivors tried to kill themselves, and some did
 commit suicide in ISIS captivity.

239
00:20:49,060 --> 00:20:56,140
So, these psychological pressures greatly affect mental recovery.

240
00:20:56,820 --> 00:21:04,780
And so, as I said earlier, We don’t have institutions
 capable of providing.

241
00:21:05,140 --> 00:21:09,120
There are many hospitals available in some big cities,

242
00:21:09,740 --> 00:21:15,760
But Iraq and Kurdistan in general suffer from a shortage of

243
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,190
Psychiatrists suffer from a shortage of psychological therapists.

244
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,340
Even the therapists—we went through this issue; the number was,

245
00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:32,420
There were very few therapists, or experience in general, in dealing with sexual violence cases was almost limited.

246
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:37,100
Because previously, we weren’t familiar with or 
didn’t deal with such cases.

247
00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:42,620
Or dealing with cases of genocide.

248
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,040
So, we turned to NGOs.

249
00:21:45,550 --> 00:21:48,140
There were many organizations working in the field of

250
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:49,960
Psychosocial support,

251
00:21:50,340 --> 00:21:53,080
But unfortunately, due to funding shortages,

252
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,660
This affected the incompleteness of.

253
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:58,880
It created a gap in the treatment.

254
00:21:59,460 --> 00:22:01,520
Currently, we as the Hope Makers organization

255
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:06,720
We’ve been working since 2021 until now. We had a center
 in Sinjar and another one in Sinuni

256
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,720
offering psychosocial support.

257
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:17,170
We used to run many training programs for survivors, including 
economic programs in addition to psychological treatment.

258
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:18,900
We had a specialist doctor

259
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,380
and mental health therapists but we
   lost all that due to lack of funding.

260
00:22:23,740 --> 00:22:28,960
The decrease in funding affected the continuation of treatment.

261
00:22:29,140 --> 00:22:32,120
And many of them need treatment at this stage.

262
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:43,660
In my opinion, restoring these services is absolutely essential for 
treating survivors with psychological disorders.

263
00:22:44,020 --> 00:22:48,920
Certainly, Dr. Nagham, Article 4 of the Survivors Law

264
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,620
The main goal is to rehabilitate and care for them

265
00:22:53,020 --> 00:22:57,520
And to provide the means necessary for reintegration and preventing repeat violations.

266
00:22:58,060 --> 00:23:01,240
This is carried out as stated in Article 5 of this law

267
00:23:01,620 --> 00:23:05,860
By establishing health and psychological rehabilitation
 centers to treat survivors,

268
00:23:06,380 --> 00:23:10,390
And Efforts are also being made to open health clinics, and 
according to available information,  

269
00:23:10,590 --> 00:23:14,400
a center is planned to be opened in Sinjar and another in Mosul.

270
00:23:14,740 --> 00:23:24,000
choosing Mosul as a location seems strange — given that many 
survivors were tortured and sold there.

271
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,650
In your view, how important is the choice of location and service availability for survivors?

272
00:23:27,930 --> 00:23:28,800
Yes!

273
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:34,750
Choosing the location must be done with great sensitivity. 
The location is very important.

274
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:44,340
Sinjar, for example, is very suitable for survivors — most of them are from there, it’s easier to reach, and it’s their home region.

275
00:23:44,780 --> 00:23:48,080
We must also consider cultural factors.

276
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,780
Regarding Mosul it would be a wrong choice,

277
00:23:53,580 --> 00:24:00,700
Because not just most, but about 90% of the survivors were 
raped and tortured inside Mosul.

278
00:24:01,220 --> 00:24:03,560
This would re-trigger the trauma.

279
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,260
Honestly, as they say colloquially, it 
would only make things worse.

280
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,760
It’s hard for survivors to receive treatment there.

281
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:16,580
In my opinion, because I have worked on this issue and have been in direct contact with survivors for several years,

282
00:24:16,900 --> 00:24:26,840
Choosing Mosul, the Mosul center, on the contrary, will worsen the situation—it will make things worse. 

283
00:24:27,090 --> 00:24:32,720
In my opinion, Sinjar would be a better area,

284
00:24:33,900 --> 00:24:40,950
Sinjar should be considered more important… It is the most suitable location, even if there are centers in Duhok or other areas. 

285
00:24:41,150 --> 00:24:48,200
If they want to open multiple centers, Sinjar should be the first priority. 
As for other areas, I do not encourage it.

286
00:24:49,360 --> 00:24:51,800
I don’t support opening a center in Mosul at all,

287
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,330
Because that’s where the survivor was torture,

288
00:24:55,660 --> 00:24:56,670
Sold, bought and traded

289
00:24:56,900 --> 00:24:58,110
All happened Inside of Mosul

290
00:24:58,740 --> 00:25:00,830
This will revive their trauma.

291
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:02,580
And it risks re-traumatizing them.

292
00:25:02,820 --> 00:25:04,000
Like post-trauma

293
00:25:04,420 --> 00:25:06,620
The trauma will resurface

294
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:07,120
Yes!

295
00:25:07,780 --> 00:25:10,570
Based on your knowledge of the Iraqi healthcare system, 

296
00:25:10,770 --> 00:25:17,880
what do you think about the chances of creating a comprehensive, high-quality, state-sponsored rehabilitation system

297
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,380
One that includes medical, psychological, social, and legal services, along with access to education, 

298
00:25:21,710 --> 00:25:25,380
family support, stigma reduction, vocational training, and so on?

299
00:25:26,340 --> 00:25:34,360
Yes, the health system in Iraq, of course, there is an ambition to have a comprehensive health system that provides all services.

300
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:42,220
But unfortunately, Iraq’s healthcare system is overwhelmed. 
We suffer from weak infrastructure.

301
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,320
There’s also inequality in services between areas.

302
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:52,000
For example, big cities have different services than small towns. 
And there are remote areas with no services at all.

303
00:25:52,180 --> 00:25:53,820
Health

304
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:58,760
So, in this case, we need strong political decision.

305
00:25:59,100 --> 00:26:05,740
We need serious partnerships

306
00:26:05,900 --> 00:26:13,880
And we need to establish partnerships between... government partnerships,

307
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:18,040
Between Government, Local organizations, And international organizations.

308
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:24,210
It is what will help provide a comprehensive healthcare system.

309
00:26:24,780 --> 00:26:25,090
Yes!

310
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,180
Dr. Nagham, you are not only a doctor,

311
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:30,400
But also, a respected female figure

312
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:31,920
In the Yazidi community.

313
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,560
You speak the survivors' language and share

314
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:35,720
Their culture.

315
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,020
That’s why you are best positioned

316
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:41,970
To understand what is needed to reduce the harm —

317
00:26:42,420 --> 00:26:45,310
If not,  eliminate it entirely

318
00:26:45,620 --> 00:26:48,100
as you mentioned at the beginning.

319
00:26:48,380 --> 00:26:51,970
From your experience, what is the right path forward? 

320
00:26:52,170 --> 00:26:57,940
hat are the most important rehabilitation services that can
 help us move closer to the concept of health

321
00:26:58,360 --> 00:27:03,210
According to the WHO definition: a state of complete physical, mental, and social well-being, 

322
00:27:03,410 --> 00:27:07,880
And not merely the absence of disease or disability?

323
00:27:07,940 --> 00:27:11,350
We also talked about this topic at the beginning, so now we 
 will go into more detail.

324
00:27:11,580 --> 00:27:12,160
Yes!

325
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:21,140
To reach the fundamental concept mentioned by the World Health Organization regarding the basic or true meaning of health,

326
00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:28,060
There should be, for survivors, medical care that takes into account the effects of psychological trauma — everything is necessary.

327
00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:32,920
Because, as I said, it’s an extremely sensitive topic.

328
00:27:33,180 --> 00:27:35,960
Even a simple medical exam

329
00:27:36,340 --> 00:27:40,960
Meaning we might ask the survivor to undergo a simple examination

330
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,980
We might perform it on her, but it could be sensitive and trigger the trauma again for her

331
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,400
Psychological support is also vital.

332
00:27:48,780 --> 00:27:55,860
We need to organize vocational training programs to 
economically empower survivors.

333
00:27:56,380 --> 00:28:03,500
Also, we need to support community healing,

334
00:28:03,780 --> 00:28:08,100
And reintegrate survivors into society through dialogue sessions,

335
00:28:08,550 --> 00:28:11,640
Family counseling, and community awareness.

336
00:28:11,900 --> 00:28:15,280
There also needs to be collaboration between

337
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,160
Representatives from the healthcare and legal,

338
00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:20,960
And community leaders.

339
00:28:21,220 --> 00:28:25,040
This is how we can reach

340
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,580
The true concept of public health or Complete Health

341
00:28:28,740 --> 00:28:38,510
To ensure survivors live a free and independent life.

342
00:28:38,900 --> 00:28:39,210
Yes!

343
00:28:39,740 --> 00:28:45,200
My final question: Is it helpful to bring survivors together

344
00:28:45,420 --> 00:28:50,010
To talk and share with each other, Or could that increase trauma?

345
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:58,480
In psychological therapy, we have both individual and group sessions.

346
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:05,280
In group sessions, each survivor tries to express her pain.

347
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:13,460
But personal and sensitive experiences should only be shared
 privately between the therapist and the survivor.

348
00:29:13,940 --> 00:29:21,040
Dr. Nagham, you were our guest in this episode. You provided many valuable insights. Thank you very much.

349
00:29:21,580 --> 00:29:23,820
Thank you very much. I wish you all the best.

350
00:29:23,940 --> 00:29:24,760
Thanks